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Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:35 pm
by AllanW
Hi all,

I've been procrastinating about taking the plunge on a Hawk for a fair few months now and lockdown part 2 has presented me with more time at home, so I think it might be time to take the plunge. I know I need to get on waiting lists and things, but step one is to locate a donor and start working on it so I'm after your advice...

The goal (currently) is a Hawk 1.8/2.6 with a Triumph I6 engine, although that could change.

What I think this means is I want:
- MGB (GT or roadster? Does that make any difference?)
- Associated V5 (to classify as a "Kit Converted Car" for IVA)
- wire wheel axle (I've seen MGB wire wheel conversions to accommodate the wider axle - would they work on a Hawk?)
- "2 original major parts" in reusable order (for age-related plate) - front axle/rear axle and steering rack sound like the obvious ones. Engine and therefore transmission are out if I'm replacing them. Suspension could be an alternative but it sounds like the Hawk front suspension is a desirable upgrade and I think you need both front and rear to qualify as "a major component".
- Age? - Other than the impact on the age-related plate are e.g. chrome bumper MGBs better as a donor than rubber bumper? I know there are some mechanical differences between the years but don't believe they would significantly affect suitability as a donor?
- Don't care about body rust (within reason) as I won't use the body?
- The better the condition the car in general, the more parts I will likely be able to reuse?

I'm going to speak to Hawk cars as well, but any advice appreciated.



Re: Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:22 pm
by StewbieC
Hi Allan,
It is good you are giving your project plenty of thought.
Hawk has a long lead time for kits currently so it is worthwhile paying the deposit to get your name on the list. At this stage you don't need to confirm specification so it will allow you to further your research.
If you want an Ace type body and wires you really need a B wire wheel axle for the correct track width. Even though prices are on the increase buying the right axle would be cheaper and the best option over any modified alternatives.
The IVA is a test and for that you just need to build the car to meet the requirements of the test and demonstrate that the car is Amateur built by taking photos of the build and preferably with you in it to have the least stringent test (if you can describe it as such).
The V5 and donor parts are for registration to conform with the requirement for an age related plate.
For this application you will complete the V55/5 form and built up inspection report (all available online). You will want to demonstrate that at least two major components are from the donor vehicle that relate to the V5 in your name (you can use more) and the rest are receipted new or as new other than one other major component (which normally is the engine) that can be used and from somewhere else. If you download the forms you will see it is straightforward enough. The technical data required for the V55/5 is available on the IAC certificate which you receive when you pass IVA.
So the running order is normally.
Put down deposit
Decide what kit you want
Locate suitable donor and parts
Refurbish donor parts
Obtain and rebuild engine
Receive kit
Build to pass IVA test
Have a well earned beer.
The rarest parts needed are early solid MGB columns that we use.
Look me up on the members list and feel free to mail me if you have any specific questions. We are all here to help

Re: Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:15 pm
by rhattersley
You will want to demonstrate that at least two major components are from the donor vehicle that relate to the V5 in your name (you can use more) and the rest are receipted new or as new other than one other major component (which normally is the engine) that can be used and from somewhere else.
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but where does the "new/as-new except for one" requirement come from? The description of kit-converted vehicles doesn't seem to mention it. Do the DVLA provide more detail on what they require somewhere else? :? It only seems to crop up for kit-built vehicles but I don't see how that can be relevant to an age-related Hawk registration.

If there is an implied "new/as-new except for one" rule, then that would seem to rule out using both an old engine and an old gearbox?

Re: Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:25 am
by kdavies3
"new/as-new except for one" component is for a new registration no. not age related.

Re: Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:36 am
by StewbieC
We are all free to take whatever advice we want. I have my opinion and personally prefer a risk free approach.
Good luck.

Re: Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:15 pm
by rhattersley
I'm sorry if my question came across as antagonistic - that really wasn't the intention. On the contrary, my assumption as a complete and utter newbie is that I'm missing some important documentation and/or don't understand some of what I've already found! But I'm keen to learn so I can figure out which of the many permutations of engine, gearbox, donor bits, etc. is viable. Hence my wondering if there were some more documents somewhere. That single web page describing the kit converted criteria seems bizarrely short for a government regulation!

Re: Perfect Donor (Hawk)

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:38 pm
by StewbieC
The rules are open to interpretation much the same as different IVA test stations have a variation of interpretations on what constitutes compliance.
The three options for registration are all new components bar one which gives you a new registration, a minimum of two major components from a single donor vehicle (the rules are pretty clear on that one) other than one other component that may be used (deviate from that path if you wish) and you should get an age related plate and thirdly, vehicles of questionable origin with used major components from different sources and you may get assigned a Q plate.
Once a Q plate, no private reg's that's it.
And to quote from a famous film "Do you feel lucky."
You can get whatever voices of reason you want, but the day you send that paperwork in, is judgement day.
I personally wouldn't want the lovely person from the DVLA to have an ounce of doubt as to which number gets assigned.
To be pretty damn certain of an age related plate, Steering is one, axles both (easiest 2nd major component) and suspension complete (if you go that way) are the options for a Hawk. Engine (age will determine emissions requirements) is usually the other used bit and then the choice is up to you. Deviate from that path if you wish but you are then in the grey area.
If I were building an Ace replica, I'd probably go for a new Mazda 5 speed box which is a pretty common upgrade / addition to a Triumph 6.
I've had a couple of people who went off piste asking for advice as to what are the options when they have been assigned a
Q plate.
But the decision is yours! Make sure you are happy with the route you go down.